Beneteau First 235 Forums

SteveGeiser · Newbie Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 4 Location: Hockessin DE

Huntsville AL CraigsList posted 6/4/04 1987 Beneteau First 235 Sloop Sailboat $3500 "...nice boat..needs light gelcoat repair..not a water damage.." nice trailer is extra $1300 Do I hear the word fraud?

Jon · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:38 am Post subject:

Did you flag his post?
_________________
Jon
85' Laser 28 #167*Pandora*
87' F235 WK #69 my ex

Lake Ontario NY

abstrait · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:55 am Post subject:

Before doing anything more on this, I'd sure like to hear ALL sides of this story.

http://huntsville.craigslist.org/boa/344923279.html

This is the boat in question. For all perusing these forums, here is one side of this boat's story, and a compelling one at that.
http://beneteau235.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1795

You can see this boat on the F235 Directory as North Star, hull #039. Photos there of this boat show how it originally appeared in ebay. It went through Katrina, but how much damage WITHIN the boat is up for debate. It's been cleaned up a bit since these photos. The boat sold for $710 via ebay. How many hands it's been through since then is unknown.

Obviously, Mr. Ratliff gets some boats via salvage among other means. I will say that his asking price is surely not insanely out of the question. Based on this, I'm betting he's not keen on a survey as he knows what will come of it. From this side, I didnt see any grave damage from afar.

Any person interested just be aware of the full story behind this boat, keeping a clear perspective on what's gone down since the original ebay sale.
_________________
Kelly Holsten ï¿½ abstrait
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com

SteveGeiser · Newbie Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 4 Location: Hockessin DE

I did flag Ratliff's post but it takes more than one flag to get it removed. Please go at it. Ratliff (256-655-8191) will tell you what a great boat it is; no water damage, no idea how the mast got broken, etc., etc.......

abstrait · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject:

At the least, the guy needs to come clean and admit it's been through Katrina, although I have no proof that he KNEW this. There was a big amount of time between the ebay ad and the next posting in Sailing Texas. I will say from afar that it doesnt appear this boat was submerged but it did get beat up. Having lived through more than a few hurricanes with Fran boats all around here, I've seen much worse. The mast was lost in Katrina. Someone swiped the roller furling system.

The guy surely does not reveal all and the deposit affair with Gil is beyond unfortunate. Keeping that $300 was lame. On the other hand, a deposit is just that. If at any time, the prospective buyer said he WANTED the boat, here's $300 to hold, then it's just that. If the prospective buyer than says, "well, I dont know, it hinges on a survey" then the deposit is more a tossup. In good faith, the guy should have returned it. But we had a similar issue with a deposit that was WAAAAY more, also on a sale that was delayed, and sadly, with the same results.

My bet is he's wheeling and dealing on many boats at once and is not one to be screwed with. That being said, show up with cash and he's all smiles.
_________________
Kelly Holsten ï¿½ abstrait
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com

Jon · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject:

If the guy is not willing to come to 235.com land and defend himself then it really doesn't matter. Didn't he take money from a forum member & not return it or sell the boat to him?

This would be the best place to sell anyway? KH why don't you call him & invite him to the forum make a dedicated for sale page.
_________________
Jon
85' Laser 28 #167*Pandora*
87' F235 WK #69 my ex

Lake Ontario NY

abstrait · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:14 pm Post subject:

I want to ask Gil if when he put the deposit down, he told him he WANTED IT and to HOLD.... IF that's the case, and then Gil comes back saying, "hey, I want a survey before committing" then it's more problematic.

I'll say up front, this seller obviously does not mess around and feels no remorse on keeping those ducats. I have a serious problem with this type of selling. on the other hand, if the $300 was put down to HOLD for definite purchase until arriving, and then it was made contingent on a "survey" he has more right to give the HOLD TO THIS DATE, and then start over.

DO I like it? no. Do I think it's a gentleman? not really. Can he DO it? In my view, like or not, YES.
_________________
Kelly Holsten ï¿½ abstrait
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com

Jon · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject:

My understanding was that he gave him a deposit on good faith, then the seller refused access to the boat for a survey. Maybe my memory is not serving me well, at any rate contact him & have him list it here & answer all the questions buyers may have.
_________________
Jon
85' Laser 28 #167*Pandora*
87' F235 WK #69 my ex

Lake Ontario NY

SteveGeiser · Newbie Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 4 Location: Hockessin DE

CraigsList description does NOT match photos on web; End of Story. It is very fortunate that I did not go to AL expecting to see a nice boat needing light gelcoat repair and a mast.

abstrait · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject:

SteveGeiser · Newbie Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 4 Location: Hockessin DE

Yes, I have seen the photos and other information on your site. I am very grateful for the service you have provided. I do not expect miracles for $3.5K but I think it requires more than an active imagination to reconcile the ad and description I was given with the pictures. Ratliff will not take checks or money orders (cash or wire payments only). No PayPal or waiting a few days for a bank check to clear. This does not look good.

abstrait · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject:

Ok. Stephen Ratliff evidently just sent a whopping 49 photos of North Star to Steve Geiser (his text was, and I quote, "Hello, No trailers are included. Storage and transport available, good papers, all legal papers, Regards Stephen")! Steve was good enough to forward them on to me. To be honest, this is more photo representation than 99.9% of all ads I've seen. I've just gone through them all. Needless to say, I'm going to reserve judgment on this whole ordeal. Contemplating posting them but dont feel like promoting this sale any more than I have. That being said, there's probably two sides to this whole matter, just as I surmised, although I sure dont agree with the way Mr. Ratliff has handled most of it, including the ad (there are far more than some light scratches in the gelcoat). These photos DO go a long way in clearing up the vague, misleading language of the ads, but dont clear up the "deposit vs surveyor" quagmire that Gil went through. btw, there are closeups of most of the damage.
_________________
Kelly Holsten ï¿½ abstrait
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com

Jon · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject:

how could you not post them? are you kidding? Anyone on the planet looking for a 235 winds up here.

Send them to me I'll post them.
_________________
Jon
85' Laser 28 #167*Pandora*
87' F235 WK #69 my ex

Lake Ontario NY

nquigley · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject:

As I recall, North Star went for about $750 on eBay. It's still not worth more than about $1000-1500 as is, IMO. The rig alone is going to cost $3K delivered, with all hardware, shrouds, etc. After the hull repair, etc, you'll soon be up to $5K (much more if you need to get sails too). I'd rather get a slightly 'tired' F235 for ~$6K than a thoroughly thashed one for a third of that amount. There is no way it's worth $3K, IMO.
_________________
Neil Quigley
Ericson 32-2 'Molto Bene'
Knoxville, TN
(ex - F235 #252 'Traveler')

north star · Newbie Joined: 13 Nov 2007 Posts: 13 Location: Alabama

I read all the comments about #39, some owners and wantabe owners about my boat, about a year after I bought North Star, just some comments about in this "Forum". SteveGeiser never come here to see or inspect this boat and never ask about why the "buyer" lost he money, but SteveGeiser made comment "Fraud", there is word for a little boy, never seen the boat or trailer, Steve grow up! I am not taking the time answer all comments, BUT NONE OF THOSE SEEN THE BOAT OR INSPECT. The would "buyer" paid $300 to hold a boat 10 days, I gave 14 days. The buyer never paid for the boat, never call or email/mail for over 3 months. I gave another 10 days, about 4 months, still never paid, about 4 months after the first deal, he wanted a survey, my answer 4 months is long, you lost the boat after the 14 days. Any survey is OK, but you have pay for the survey and I will not sign any about survey, it's your survey.
My last statement, if you haven't seen, inspect, or see the survey, keep your comments like "Fraud", and neg statements, about 99% you in the forum was wrong. Stephen Ratliff THE OWNER!