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My boat is on ebay - SOLD
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Daryl
Tactician


Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 570
Location: Truman Lake, MO

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:43 am    Post subject: As the thread turns Reply with quote

This thread is really quite a soap opera (my contributions included <g>) as it has wounds it's way around several issues.

And it turns once more to haggling over how much trailer a 235 requires. I'm not going to play, except to the extent of the following confession of stupidity, luck and good equipment that follows:

As most of you know, I drive a truck for a living. I average about 150,000 miles a year, plus my personal driving. {{EDITORIAL CLARIFICATION: IT HAS BEEN POINTED OUT THAT THIS SEEMS TO BE BOASTING. IT IS OFFERED IN EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE SENSE. A REASONABLE PERSON WOULD CERTAINLY CONCLUDE I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER. BUT IT DID HAPPEN. MY REAL POINT WAS SHIT NOT ONLY HAPPENS, IT CAN HAPPEN ANYTIME TO ANYONE. THAT'S ALL ds}} On that personal side I drove to Lake Lanier last month and picked up my 235 on Neil's tandem trailer with 6 poppits. I'm way outta shape, sad but all to obviously true. After wrestling with boat, trailer and rig for half a day under a Georgia summer sun, I was beat. For those of you that know the area I had just crossed Brown's Bridge a couple miles back, heading toward Cumming. For those not knowing the area, it's a narrow winding road with a lot of areas where the shoulder has washed away from the pavement. An oncoming car crowded the center line, I over corrected and dropped one side of the trailer wheels off the pavement. The boat and trailer popped back up, didn't fishtail and I held my breath until I found a wide spot to stop and inspect everything. I was lucky, didn't cut a tire and did no damage at all to either boat or trailer.

I can't say beyond doubt that I wouldn't have done as well with a lighter trailer. I also can't say beyond doubt that the boat would have come off if not tied down. I can say, with great conviction, that I'll not put myself in a position to ever find out.

One side here will apparently never convince the other. The above facts are only offered, with some personal embarrassment, for the consideration of grown up peoples to make up their own minds.


Last edited by Daryl on Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nquigley
Skipper


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 1844
Location: Concord YC, Knoxville, TN

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pads (or bunks) are only there to stop the thing falling over - they shouldn't be carrying any real weight. I'd guess that >90% of the weight is on the keel support.
When I put my boat back onto the trailer from the slings I was using when painting last month, we centered it nicely, and only barely brought the pads up to the hull - I could still wiggle all pads when the boat was on the trailer. Inevitably, the boat must lean one way or the other, but if it's set up right, none of the pads are supporting much weight - especially the two either side of the bow section. These latter two are useful though if painting/working under the boat on the trailer when you want to back off the pads beside the keel.
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Neil Quigley
Ericson 32-2 'Molto Bene'
Knoxville, TN
(ex - F235 #252 'Traveler')
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 7504
Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nquigley wrote:
The pads (or bunks) are only there to stop the thing falling over - they shouldn't be carrying any real weight. I'd guess that >90% of the weight is on the keel support.

I always thought it was a bit more equal than this. IF you think about it, the keel never supports the weight of the boat as it sits in the water. I have always gone with the 50/50 rule allowing the keel to support the main weight but putting pressure on the pads as well. Having them located over the bulkheads is important too (as jon alluded to) with them getting a bit more weight. But 90% on the keels seems high to me. This is always a good discussion point, though. I bet it comes up a few times on sailboat forums every few months.

kh
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>


Last edited by abstrait on Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BLACKSHEEP
Rail Meat


Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 72
Location: Indian Lake, OH

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soap or no soap, thanks you for letting me use this great tool.
jon
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 7504
Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLACKSHEEP wrote:
Soap or no soap, thanks you for letting me use this great tool.

Well, forums in general always breed this type of interchange, especially if characters abound and this place has the usual assortment of characters. It's far less a soap opera than a tool for discourse when opinions and viewpoints coming from all corners with their own bias and experiences swaying the results. Regardless, it's a great tool for sharing info and help with many benefitting from the info.

kh
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>


Last edited by abstrait on Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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nquigley
Skipper


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 1844
Location: Concord YC, Knoxville, TN

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

abstrait wrote:
nquigley wrote:
The pads (or bunks) are only there to stop the thing falling over - they shouldn't be carrying any real weight. I'd guess that >90% of the weight is on the keel support.

I always thought it was a bit more equal than this. // 90% on the keels seems high to me.
kh

just a guess, based on the pads not being cranked up. When the guy helping me at the lift suggested this approach, it seemed odd, but I now rather like the idea of the ~10-inch square pads NOT pushing up into the hull too much ... OK, I'll 'compromise' - keel taking 80% and 4-6 pads or 2 bunks taking the remainder between them - what's that? about 280 lb per side (2800 lb boat). At 50/50, supports on each side is supporting ~700 lb (more when cornering).
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Neil Quigley
Ericson 32-2 'Molto Bene'
Knoxville, TN
(ex - F235 #252 'Traveler')
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abstrait
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Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 7504
Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I agree that the keel should be taking serious weight but my pads are cranked up to take some weight as well. I will say that some boats have more substantial bottoms; the F235 is not exactly thick there and really has no stub or serious reinforcement at the attachment point. It's a good topic, for sure.
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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Steve Clausen
Navigator


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 307
Location: Red Hook, New York. Sailing out of Boothbay Harbor, Maine

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

abstrait wrote:
Actually, if launching the boat a lot, and you have ye olde wing, I think the bunks are really the way to go. They just suck when you have to do bottom work and those ideal wing F235 trailers that are low mean sore backs and cursing under breath come bottom time. That beast with the open back is cool.

kh


I have one of the original Traid custom builts for the F235 .. The bunks are curved to fit the bottom of the hull. The bunks really aid in sucking or scooping up the boat while retrieving once you learn how deep to set the trailer I just drive the boat on like a motor boat. The bunks are a hassle to bottom paint around. Mine are suppose to be adjustable, which would make it a non-issue; however, the suckers are frozen in place from rust. I need to get some time and rent some torches and free those bad boys up.
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R-TERN
'87 Wing Nut, Hull # 33
Recycle and conserve natural resources, nothing lasts forever.
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abstrait
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Joined: 16 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still one of the BEST designs for the F235, especially the wing keel, obviously. I have seen this trailer under a number of F235. Once the proper depth is figured out (just as Steve says), this thing is great.



kh
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'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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Jon
First 235 Crazy


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 6813
Location: lake ontario

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanx Neil, I'm glad that I am not the only one who knows anything........heh


90% is correct!
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Jon
85' Laser 28 #167*Pandora*
87' F235 WK #69 my ex

Lake Ontario NY


Last edited by Jon on Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jon
First 235 Crazy


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 6813
Location: lake ontario

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

abstrait wrote:
Still one of the BEST designs for the F235, especially the wing keel, obviously. I have seen this trailer under a number of F235. Once the proper depth is figured out (just as Steve says), this thing is great.



kh


that trailer is 4 times the weight of the boat....christ!
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Jon
85' Laser 28 #167*Pandora*
87' F235 WK #69 my ex

Lake Ontario NY
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abstrait
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon wrote:
that trailer is 4 times the weight of the boat....christ!

I have seen this trailer under more F235 wing keels than any other, including the Wescos that were the rage out of SC. I'd take that beast any ole day although in aluminum it would be light...and with a lighter pocketbook as well! heh.

On the 90% ratio, that's the second time I have heard that figure, the first in a few posts above. As I stated, I think I have hear a different opinion on this ratio at every stop but we all agree that the majority of the weight should first be put on the keel and second on the hull where bulkheads exist to keep the dreaded oil can factor at bay. My boat was on the trailer for almost 18 months last time.

Jonner, can you weigh your boat at your new marina?

kh
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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Jon
First 235 Crazy


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 6813
Location: lake ontario

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

abstrait wrote:
Jon wrote:
that trailer is 4 times the weight of the boat....christ!

I have seen this trailer under more F235 wing keels than any other, including the Wescos that were the rage out of SC. I'd take that beast any ole day although in aluminum it would be light...and with a lighter pocketbook as well! heh.

On the 90% ratio, that's the second time I have heard that figure, the first in a few posts above. As I stated, I think I have hear a different opinion on this ratio at every stop but we all agree that the majority of the weight should first be put on the keel and second on the hull where bulkheads exist to keep the dreaded oil can factor at bay. My boat was on the trailer for almost 18 months last time.

Jonner, can you weigh your boat at your new marina?

kh


nope, no scale


But as for the 90% factor........heh
I know I have hauled more boats than anyone on this forum......
I have hauled & set with jackstands well over 1000 boats & I know what I'm doing & I know how to do it right.
Neil is correct, Jackposts, jackstands are for keeping the boat from falling over. Sailboats are designed to stand on their keels.
A well designed trailer or cradle will put supports @ the bulkheads, when I set sailboats with jackstands I set the stands only at the bulkheads.
You draw the poppit up to the boat bottom no further.
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Jon
85' Laser 28 #167*Pandora*
87' F235 WK #69 my ex

Lake Ontario NY
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mike
Graduated to First 285


Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 6252
Location: Chesapeake Bay (Bodkin Creek, MD)

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon wrote:

I know I have hauled more boats than anyone on this forum.


I know i have hauled fewer boats than anyone on this forum. so what is a poppit?
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Mike Hayden
'89 F285 WK, Hull #127 s/v Enchant
'89 F235 WK, Hull #253 s/v Windependent my ex
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Dirk
I Finally found an F235!


Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 200
Location: Germany, Laboe, Baltic Sea

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what about this one>? RKGSK 20 -22 B??? retail price list says 2,564$ ??
http://www.trailnsail.com/Galvanized%20Sail.htm
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Alveola
'93 ~ EU367 ~ Swing Keel
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
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Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What has become pretty obvious to me is that we need to find a company that can make a great F235 trailer at various levels and price points, as some would prefer a heavy duty, overbuilt, feature filled model, while others might want to get something more economical, while still doing the job.

I personally would put the most money into making the trailer truly custom made for the F235 allowing for the easiest launch and retrieve cability with the least hassle.

If we can find a company that could build these trailers for an economical price (for the low end) then I would work out a deal with them on a page dedicated to this goal.

kh
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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nquigley
Skipper


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 1844
Location: Concord YC, Knoxville, TN

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dirk wrote:
what about this one>? RKGSK 20 -22 B??? retail price list says 2,564$ ??
http://www.trailnsail.com/Galvanized%20Sail.htm

I think Road King are good trailers for a good price - I was going to order one from them when I almost bought an F235 without a trailer. They expected it to take 3 weeks to make it. At the last moment, I found and bought a boat with a trailer.
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Neil Quigley
Ericson 32-2 'Molto Bene'
Knoxville, TN
(ex - F235 #252 'Traveler')
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mike
Graduated to First 285


Joined: 26 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

abstrait wrote:

If we can find a company that could build these trailers for an economical price (for the low end)...
kh


fwiw i'd be more inclined to participate if the trailer was a well engineered, dual axle, lasting solution rather then low end.
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Mike Hayden
'89 F285 WK, Hull #127 s/v Enchant
'89 F235 WK, Hull #253 s/v Windependent my ex
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike wrote:
fwiw i'd be more inclined to participate if the trailer was a well engineered, dual axle, lasting solution rather then low end.

"What has become pretty obvious to me is that we need to find a company that can make a great F235 trailer at various levels and price points, as some would prefer a heavy duty, overbuilt, feature filled model, while others might want to get something more economical, while still doing the job."

I would prefer the ability to make a trailer that would handle BOTH sides of the spectrum depending on options etc. Some would go for single axle, others double. Some would want brakes etc.

Too bad this is buried in this ebay/sale thread. I might throw the trailer posts in another thread in the trailering section.

kh
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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mquigley
1000 posts? Man Overboard!


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 1027
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If everyone ends up with trailers, what excuse will we all use about not getting together?
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mike
Graduated to First 285


Joined: 26 Nov 2004
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Location: Chesapeake Bay (Bodkin Creek, MD)

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mquigley wrote:
If everyone ends up with trailers, what excuse will we all use about not getting together?


$5/gallon gas for the trucks?
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Mike Hayden
'89 F285 WK, Hull #127 s/v Enchant
'89 F235 WK, Hull #253 s/v Windependent my ex
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mquigley
1000 posts? Man Overboard!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew there was another excuse ready. :-)
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
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Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mquigley wrote:
If everyone ends up with trailers, what excuse will we all use about not getting together?

A 93 Toyota Camry DX, 98 Volkswagon Cabrio, and two Earth Cruisers.... I could always tow my Hobie there!

I have my ole buddy Mike with his Eddie Bauer Excursion to pull and launch my F235 or my brother's new Tahoe. I asked my brother this Spring if he might lend me the family Tahoe for the BMW Bavaria for a weekend. He laughed and asked "How's Mom?"

kh
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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Michael Garman
First Mate


Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 194
Location: Colonial Beach, Virginia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject: 90% ratio Reply with quote

When a boat is in jack stands, the boat basically sits on the keel and the stands stabilize it. I don't think the stands provide much in the way of vertical support, but keep it from moving horizontally. They certainly are not keeping the hull up..........as if it would start drooping???

Just my 2cents and late in the thread at that...
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BLACKSHEEP
Rail Meat


Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 72
Location: Indian Lake, OH

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not heard from Dirk. So, I have no idea what he is going to do. I will go to my bank and if it is not posted in my account by 3 o'clock it means the boat is for sale. Sorry, I have no other choice, I hope the money is there and he gets his boat. I hate this! This does not make for a good day.
jon
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