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1990 F235 - Nebraska - Trailer
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longreach
Newbie


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 21
Location: DCYC, North Texas

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:08 am    Post subject: 1990 F235 - Nebraska - Trailer Reply with quote

From Sailing Texas -

http://www.sailingtexas.com/sbeneteau235j.html

Looks very nice...
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 7504
Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, that's ole Jim aka lingerfeltja with Daisy Mae, Hull #394.

Had no idea he was even interested in selling. Awwwww, Jim....


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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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Jon
First 235 Crazy


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 6813
Location: lake ontario

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonder why he wouldn't offer it up here? anyone on the planet who wants one is here? strange?????????????
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85' Laser 28 #167*Pandora*
87' F235 WK #69 my ex

Lake Ontario NY
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Daryl
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Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 570
Location: Truman Lake, MO

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Wonder why he wouldn't offer it up here? anyone on the planet who wants one is here? strange?????????????


I dunno, Jon. We have people that have 235s. We have people that used to have 235s. and we have Garrett. None of which are going to be purchasing the advertised boat.

I'm guessing Texas Sailing hits more market, if your intention is to actually sell a boat. Besides, someone here always finds the ad and bemoan the infidelity of outside ads.
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Frodo
I've lost my Babystay!


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 2012
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daryl wrote:
Besides, someone here always finds the ad and bemoan the infidelity of outside ads.

Yeah....Those outside ad's are always tickling someone elses naughty bits.


Anybody know how much he wants?
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Crescent Yacht Club
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garrett
1000 posts? Man Overboard!


Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 1060
Location: Charlevoix, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OUCH!
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Daryl
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Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 570
Location: Truman Lake, MO

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yeah....Those outside ad's are always tickling someone elses naughty bits.


Well there ya go . . . yet another good reason to not be upset over it.
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 7504
Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daryl wrote:
Quote:
Wonder why he wouldn't offer it up here? anyone on the planet who wants one is here? strange?????????????

I dunno, Jon. We have people that have 235s. We have people that used to have 235s. and we have Garrett. None of which are going to be purchasing the advertised boat.

Take a look at the hits on some of these sale ads. A few down, you have over 10,000 views. Many with 7,000 views. This is actually the only forum that doesnt require registration to view as I wanted the most exposure for First 235s for sale. Admittedly, if going for a sale, I'd hit a few sites with ads.

I've sold a few F235 for people and found a peppering of the free spots really helps. Also, a GOOD DEAL doesnt hurt. Generally, the best deal boats sell through here. With this page, you are generally on a search for the Beneteau First 235. With other sailboat listings, you are with all the boats, so that brings people still open to many models.

Sailing Texas gets a lot of hits but is one of my least favorite ad sites due to the popups he uses to make money on his page. Some of them are horrible. But he DOES get a lot of visitors and results. You would be surprised how many come through this page, though. The views reflect a good portion. Perhaps Jim didnt want to hear anything about price or "why are you sellling the best boat in the World you idiot!" etc.

The best selling method? In my experience, it's been an AD combination with page if going for worth asking price. I've made a few "for sale" pages for owners, placing it on beneteau235.com and various other locations, with distilled versions of the same for the ads. This has brought asking price for every one so far as well as high Google results.

See Mike's Windependent
http://www.beneteau235.com/f235_listings/89_f235_maryland/


kh
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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Daryl
Tactician


Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 570
Location: Truman Lake, MO

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Generally, the best deal boats sell through here


That sentence pretty well sums it up. I'm not knocking the forum, Kelly, not at all. "Best deal" here is generally defined as cheapest, which may not be in the seller's interest. Sometimes it's not in the buyer's interest either.

The last thing I'd be interested in when selling anything is negotiating with an entire group of people with no actual interest in the transaction. That's not a defense of gouging, deception or any other shady seller tactic. It's simply that responding to every play 450 armchair quarterbacks can conceive of seems counterproductive.
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Jake
Skipper


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 1994
Location: Elkin, NC

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hehehe! Damn, Daryl, I hadn't thought of it like that. That's a pretty accurate diagnosis.
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 7504
Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty pessimistic in my view. I dont think it's quite that way, at least on the whole. My take, when I'm looking at boats, I want ALL the info I can amass, wherever I can get it. This place has tons of owners, some more vocal than others, some that know more than others, some you take with a grain of salt, but all with input that usually has some reference. IF I were interested in a First 235, the very first place I would COME is here, ditto with selling. And it has many GUESTS, kicking tires as well, looking for boats.

Ironically, this whole SITE started as a resource to get info for my own purchase. The forum adds another whole dimension, some good, some circumspect, sometimes too much drama. Regardless, if you want a First 235, you should come through here if you have any sense of wanting to get the lowdown, sometimes whether you want it or not (and sometimes too much down...).

Dont know about you, but the only time I WOULDNT want to come through here as a seller is if I had an overpriced, overinflated boat that had problems that might be: 1. recognizable by old members ie I have personally identified a few repaired boats 2. recognizable by anyone that KNOWS these boats.

Personalities and chest beating aside, this is where a good chunk of info is. It's also a great place to advertise, especially if you have a great boat for a decent price. Ditto if you have a GREAT boat for a FAIR price.

Lastly, I cant count how many emails I've received from new owners thanking me for this resource, both for pre and post purchase assistance, forum and site alike..

kh
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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Daryl
Tactician


Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 570
Location: Truman Lake, MO

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<chuckle> ummmm, Kelly, pretty defensive in my view. You haven't been attacked. The forum hasn't been attacked. It is what it is.

We've seen meltdowns. I'm amazed Dirk still pops in ('Tag, Dirk, glad you do, btw) We have screams of "buy this boat!!!!!" followed the next month by "Told ya you should have waited" Same poster. Quite vocal on the subject of who should buy what when. Readers with the benefit of time spent on the boards can decipher sources. I wonder if casual shoppers (if indeed there is such a thing) can.

I found my boat through this forum. It was by PM, but still through the forum. I believe I bought the boat under it's true value. I'm not knocking it. But it was a distress sale and the contact through the forum can fairly be categorized as a last resort (referring strictly to the particular boat I purchased . . . no other).

The forum is a tremendous font of source material that can be quite profitably employed by a buyer to make an informed evalution of the particular boat that he/she or the surveyor acting as his/her agent (significant distinction, in my view) is evaluating. The value of opinions of one, no matter how well informed generally about the 235, as to a particular boat they have never seen doesn't seem productive to either party to the transaction.

In the event I were to offer Pennywise for sale I would probably make a short announcement on this board. That wouldn't be the major thrust of my advertising, however. Such an announcement would, for me anyway, be primarily a news release to some friends across the country of what's going on. It's courtesy to a community I value, not marketing.

That's just how I see it. Your mileage may vary.

d


Last edited by Daryl on Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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abstrait
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Joined: 16 Oct 2004
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Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really defensive as much as calling it how I see it, in an even-handed way, pros and cons. Saying the forum is what it is seems pretty nebulous; but you sure have your own opinion of it. I think it is a lot of different things to different people. All resources are just that. And a cold hard boat ad is TOTALLY from the seller's perspective. This is one of the few places, if a buyer, you can get BOTH, weighing the pros and cons. An Ad will only tell you so much. Quite a few would use the interchange here, both pros and cons, to decide if it's worth driving five hours or even messing with it.

The number of people that said, "BUY THAT BOAT! and "You should have waited!" are few and, to be honest, half of that is in jest anyway (we hope). On the other hand, I DO see your point. I think people can get a feel for the slight insanity floating through the premises....heh.

Thing is, I guess I consider all info and resources fair game and a positive, even when you have to weed thru the BS.

I am pleased that you would make an announcement on selling your boat. In a way, I think that's what some objected to on this very sale, wondering why the community member didnt at least pop in to pay his "announcement" respects, if not his only seller's resource. I probably wouldnt have said as much, though.
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>


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Daryl
Tactician


Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 570
Location: Truman Lake, MO

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Saying the forum is what it is seems pretty nebulous; but you sure have your own opinion of it. I think it is a lot of different things to different people. All resources are just that.


Well, it is a tautology <grin> But you know how I hate nebulous <trulyevilgrin>

For the record, my opinion of the forum is that it is a community. It is a community I value highly.

The 235 site (the site, as distinguished from the forum) is one of the most in depth resources for ANY sailboat. And if you apply the depth of information vis a vis the number of B235's manufactured, the comparative depth of the information is greater by several orders of magnitude than any other production sailboat period!

The forum is, among other things, is both the "live feed" and source (though hardly the only source) for the information compiled on the website. But it's more. All one need do is compare the traffic of the site vs the forum to prove the proposition beyond doubt.

This is an incredibly diverse and incredibly talented group of people that have assembled themselves here and claim citizenship. And citizenship is as good and descriptive term as any I can conceive. This Body Civic is a group of disparate people bound by a common discernment of a watercraft of unique capability and appeal. It's a truly remarkable thing.

It's because I see it as such a remarkable thing (and of course, because I just can't seem to keep my mouth shut) that I sometimes cringe to see it categorized as less than I believe it to be. So I say, "it is what it is" . That's not so much nebulous as affirmation of what I see as both essential and essentially indescribable.

Kelly, you deserve great credit for creating the potentiality that allows this group to exist. Nothing I say or have said is counter to that.

I'd be really interested in hearing from others here. Does any of this resonate? Or am I just being foolish?

d


Last edited by Daryl on Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:50 pm; edited 3 times in total
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mike
Graduated to First 285


Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 6252
Location: Chesapeake Bay (Bodkin Creek, MD)

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i sure wish i had known about the site here before i bought my boat, but my knowledge of it came later. this is the place for the 235, no doubt in my mind. i credit this forum, and the discussion, advice and input from tons of people here with giving me the food for thought that allowed me to make windependent a better boat every year i had her. kh did one hell of a job helping me sell her so i could get the 285. advertising her here was part of the success story, but kh's ability to 1. write a flashy all pro ad, plus 2, manage worldwide ad penetration is what brought home the bacon. i don't think that advertising right here on the forum turned the entire trick, but i'm totally convinced, whether you are a buyer, seller or owner, it pays to hang out here and it pays to announce your intentions here. hands down, the resources are here, as are many other cool things.

so what if we all get weird, float upward and stick to the ceiling once a month.
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Mike Hayden
'89 F285 WK, Hull #127 s/v Enchant
'89 F235 WK, Hull #253 s/v Windependent my ex
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
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Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike wrote:
so what if we all get weird, float upward and stick to the ceiling once a month.

If only it was once a month... heh....
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just thought of something scary... Imagine poor ole JIM when he DOES happen upon this thread. heh.... I think I better warm him first with a friendly PM.

And to those that wander in here, wanting to learn more about Jim's boat,.... BUY THAT BOAT!
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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jimm
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Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 795
Location: Annapolis, Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike wrote:
i sure wish i had known about the site here before i bought my boat, but my knowledge of it came later. this is the place for the 235, no doubt in my mind. ........ i'm totally convinced, whether you are a buyer, seller or owner, it pays to hang out here and it pays to announce your intentions here. hands down, the resources are here, as are many other cool things.

so what if we all get weird, float upward and stick to the ceiling once a month.


DITTO;
and Daryl, Well said! This is a community of common interest, if not so common citizens - and that's a good thing <G>
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Jake
Skipper


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 1994
Location: Elkin, NC

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't find Pi through this site. When we got her we had plans for modifications from the start. We wanted an affordable club racer that we could two hand effectively. We didn't want to get into the one-design thing, we didn't want a J-boat, and we were looking at all other options under 25 feet. A friend showed us the boat the day it came out in the local boat trader and told us we had to go look at her. We put a deposit down at first viewing and took delivery a week later. The site (not forum) was a great resource for finding out what was there and what was missing, what was factory, and what had been done by a previous owner.
The forum, when I first joined, pissed me off. This was several months after purchase. I posted some of our intentions for modifications and got blasted by almost everyone across the board. I got told that I needed to get different boat and sell this one to someone who would appreciate her. I got told i was stupid. I got told I was going to ruin the boat, etc, etc, etc....
So I can see Daryl's point in the above posts. If we didn't already own Pi, I would have run screaming for the nearest J-24. Things have changed since then. I've done my own sorting through the personalities on here, made my friends, and learned alot from a variety of sources here. The site is a great resource for a potential buyer that is interested in this boat. The forum is just as likely to scare someone away. It can be like taking the whole family to a used car lot if you are new and looking for a boat. If we were to sell Pi, we would definitely post here, but we would utilize many other sources for the sale other than this site. I would be more likely to pull top dollar from someone that knows the boat for what she has become than from someone else browsing various 235 listings that doesn't know her.
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Frodo
I've lost my Babystay!


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 2012
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that every time I read a series of posts by Darryl, I'm surprised by his eloquence, and accuracy. I don't always agree with him, but I always understand where he's coming from.

D, were you an English major?

As to the value of the Forum....I agree with everything Darryl said. It is a community that we are lucky to have. It is an organism that has grown form a small but infectious (viral?...It has certainly taken over a small portion of my life) group to a great family...annoying little brothers and all. <VBG>

-Fro
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Crescent Yacht Club
4-Play...for now, Crush...(when we get the graphics changed) it'll go with Squirt, our sailing dinghy!
1988, #129 Wing Keel

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jimm
Tactician


Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 795
Location: Annapolis, Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frodo wrote:

As to the value of the Forum....I agree with everything Darryl said. It is a community that we are lucky to have. It is an organism that has grown form a small but infectious (viral?...It has certainly taken over a small portion of my life) group to a great family...annoying little brothers and all. <VBG>

-Fro


Good analogy - we might keep in mind the 'family thing' when we post, and be generous - and occassionally forgiving - as we would be to our real families. Then, I guess I got wacked more than once for treatment of my sister ..<BG>
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'93 Catalina 30TR

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Daryl
Tactician


Joined: 11 Dec 2004
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Location: Truman Lake, MO

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
D, were you an English major?


Frodo, there's no call to get insulting! <g> English major indeed!

BA in Psychology (Mothers, don't let your babies grow up to be liberal arts majors) I can't claim academic standing and they certainly don't claim me <g>
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
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Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daryl wrote:
Mothers, don't let your babies grow up to be liberal arts majors)

Irony, I spent years in the Reagan 80s trying to convince students there was more to college than getting a job and the bottom line. Sadly, I actually WAS an English/Philosophy major (Double Detritus Whammy) and often don't get the time of day here so you're one step up in my book! heh...
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'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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jimm
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the interest of full disclosure, I was an English major, but quickly understood the error of my ways and corrected course in grad school in the sciences. Though to this day I make allowances for those from the liberal arts camp ... <G>
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Ken
First Mate


Joined: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 127
Location: Erie, PA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Value of the forum Reply with quote

I really appreciate the value of this forum. I did find the forum first before I bought my boat and it helped me considerably. I do not post often but I read every day; more than I should - when I should be reading and grading my student's papers (college professor - not English!).

I value the diversity of the community because in the end, the forum does come to some concensus. I am sorry Jake for what you experienced early on but even our most active contributors, and sometimes most vocal, like Jon, come through in a pinch. Take it from me when I was returning to Northwester PA after just buying my boat in Mass., in February, in a blizzard, and never having towed such a large boat, he was just one call away with weather reports. Thanks again Jon, and everyone else who has assisted me in making Little McC. a boat my family and I are proud to own!!!!

That is fammily/community. I am not a Democrat but I would say that this village is helping to raise me (the child) as a an informaed lover of the F 235. Unfortunately that will be my only positiv reference to Hilary Clinton.

Be well

Ken
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