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F235s for sale in Europe

 
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nquigley
Skipper


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 1844
Location: Concord YC, Knoxville, TN

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject: F235s for sale in Europe Reply with quote

There are about 5 F235s for sale in Europe now, via Yachtworld.com:

Euro F235 Listings

Also, have a look at the 'Specifics' link of the boat in France asking E15,000 (US$18,170) - it has a portal in the cockpit knee wall AND a little round one (presumably it opens too) in the head/nav station.

Yachtworld French F235
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Neil Quigley
Ericson 32-2 'Molto Bene'
Knoxville, TN
(ex - F235 #252 'Traveler')
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alisdairs
1000 posts? Man Overboard!


Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 1251
Location: South River, Chesapeake Bay, MD

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On that French boat...what is that behind the table - something for a lifting keel ?
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nquigley
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 1844
Location: Concord YC, Knoxville, TN

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alisdairs wrote:
On that French boat...what is that behind the table - something for a lifting keel ?
Yep! I think there is a removable handle that goes onto that hex-nut, which turns a 'screw-drive' that lifts and lowers the keel. This system would have to be a better engineering solution than a wire cable and a winch, which we see on retractable keels in many US boats, but apparently the F235 lift keel mechanism is not entirely problem-free either. One guy got so tired of the leaks, he permanently glassed his keel in the fully extended position! There are pics somewhere on the forum or on Kelly's main site.
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Neil Quigley
Ericson 32-2 'Molto Bene'
Knoxville, TN
(ex - F235 #252 'Traveler')
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Frodo
I've lost my Babystay!


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 2012
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:59 pm    Post subject: Glassed in Keel Reply with quote

Here it is!!!
http://beneteau235.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=680&start=0
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~Frodo
Crescent Yacht Club
4-Play...for now, Crush...(when we get the graphics changed) it'll go with Squirt, our sailing dinghy!
1988, #129 Wing Keel

www.crescentyachtclub.org
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alisdairs
1000 posts? Man Overboard!


Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 1251
Location: South River, Chesapeake Bay, MD

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow - that is a LONG keel - interesting to read through the post and see all the different views and pros / cons versus swing / wing / etc...
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nquigley
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 1844
Location: Concord YC, Knoxville, TN

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alisdairs wrote:
Wow - that is a LONG keel - interesting to read through the post and see all the different views and pros / cons versus swing / wing / etc...
Doesn't that look like a tip-over accident just waiting to happen? Couldn't they find a tall jackstand for the bow? - that huge block of wood looks 'wrong' to me. The tie-down straps sure look key to the security of the support system.
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Neil Quigley
Ericson 32-2 'Molto Bene'
Knoxville, TN
(ex - F235 #252 'Traveler')
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alisdairs
1000 posts? Man Overboard!


Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 1251
Location: South River, Chesapeake Bay, MD

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remind me of a Boat Show stand I was building years ago. We had a Beneteau Oc400 turn up for positioning on the stand in a cradle. Trouble is, there had been a mis-communication with the French and the boat arrived in a very small cradle, with NO keel attached.

Our stand design included a 'double deck' c/w stairs, etc so the boat had to be approx 4 feet higher than it was. In the end our stand contractors made two huge wooden 'boxes' to put under each end of the small cradle and lift boat to correct height.

If you could have seen FOUR forklifts all trying to lift a corner each of the cradle at the same time, while we then slid these boxes under each end...'brown trousers' all round as us Brits would say !

Luckily it all worked out OK in the end !
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 7535
Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still shake my head at the sight of that shot. Leave it to the beneteau235.com forum members to be anal about some things, while others, like the almost absurd notion of "glassing" in a lifting keel, seems fine. You can never read these guys. This application has so many issues, it seems more than I can count, most of them covered.

One of the things I have always preferred is the reduction of movable parts below the waterline, especially dealing with HEEEAVY objects. The maintenance issues of swing keels, whether cable or worm roller, is always going to be an issue, especially in highly corrosive environments. Having any gearing/cable operating an object of such mass and weight via an open hole in the bottom has never struck me as good, especially as the boat ages. I have seen so many swing keel issues in the past from Catalinas etc (which are cable versions) that I try to steer clear. The two BIG advantages are the shallow water aspect with the added ability of dropping a deep keel when needed for pointing and the EASE of launching from trailer as the boat is just so much lower. When you bring in the liabilities, they start to add up, most covered in that thread.

As for that guy that GLASSED his keel, I see so many points of contention that it's hard to know where to begin. I keep forgetting to add that beast to the site though. I have never seen anything quite like it. I guess it solved his leaking issues....for the time and being until he runs aground at 5knts on a hard bottom....ouch.

kh
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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Frodo
I've lost my Babystay!


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 2012
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kelly,

Maybe you can get him to write an entry of "Owner Mods"-heh
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~Frodo
Crescent Yacht Club
4-Play...for now, Crush...(when we get the graphics changed) it'll go with Squirt, our sailing dinghy!
1988, #129 Wing Keel

www.crescentyachtclub.org
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audeojude
I've lost my Babystay!


Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 2006
Location: Conway, SC

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swing keels are great in usage but I've seen first hand how it can go wrong..
the block attached to my swing keel which the cable goes through "on Comes Around Goes Around my santana 21" exploded and the cable snapped.. I thought it had ripped the bottom out of the boat when 550 lbs of cast iron went from almost all the way up to down in a second. If it had compromised the integritey of the hull I would have sunk. To maintain it or fix it you have to totally remove the keel from the boat not a easy thing for an owner to do.. It requires lifting the boat off of the keel.

I still like using one.. great windward performance down.. very good downwind performance up and under 2 ft draft in the up position.....
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Scott Carle
Sea Puppy
Hull # 27
Wing Keel
Conway, SC
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 7535
Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a number of reports of Catalinas being holed, sinking from dropped keels. I helped sell my friend's Catalina 25 and while in the water at our dock, the cable gave way and the keel luckily hit the bottom before going to full extension. Preventive maintenance is a must with swing keel boats because neglect can cause serious issues. At least the F235 is a worm roller affair. There are more than a few reports of part wear and leaking, unfortunately. But those swings at full extension can be beasts upwind.

kh
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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audeojude
I've lost my Babystay!


Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 2006
Location: Conway, SC

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way my santana is designed it is very dry.. there is no possibility of leaks. The only way you could get leaks is around the 6 keel bolts if you ripped them out of the bottom of the hull.... but i wouldn't put it past that potentially happening .. when it fell on us the whole boat jumped in the water hard.. and when it stops its not a downward force its down and to the front which is pushes up on the front keel bolts and down on the back ones.
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Scott Carle
Sea Puppy
Hull # 27
Wing Keel
Conway, SC
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
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Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

audeojude wrote:
The way my santana is designed it is very dry.. there is no possibility of leaks. The only way you could get leaks is around the 6 keel bolts if you ripped them out of the bottom of the hull.... but i wouldn't put it past that potentially happening .. when it fell on us the whole boat jumped in the water hard.. and when it stops its not a downward force its down and to the front which is pushes up on the front keel bolts and down on the back ones.

How is your keel done? Usually, the keels pivots within the trunk and there can be leaks around the trunk. There is a bushing along with the attachment between the cable and keel, a serious issue point. How do you have "keel bolts" with your swing keel? Not sure how the Santana is done.
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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audeojude
I've lost my Babystay!


Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 2006
Location: Conway, SC

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

not sure if i can describe it and I didn't take good pictures when we had it off..
for what I do have go here and look
http://www.scottcarle.com/wordpress/?p=51

in simple the keel is a two part keel.. a cast iron top that bolts to the boat with six keel bolts. and the pivoting blade that is attached to the part that bolts to boat.. the keel box inside is only for the top of the keel to pivot thru.. and has no openings to the inside of the boat other than the hole the cable comes straight down through the top to go to the block on the bolted on part of the keel at the bottom of the box and then back up to the top of the swinging blade. this opening on the inside is well above the waterline.. by as much as 18 inches maybe. anyway I have never seen the least amount of water come up through it.

so in the end it is like a fixed keel that has a swinging component that comes up through the center of the fixed keel...

make sense? lol.. im confused now and and I have taken it apart and put it back together.. its simple in practice.. just hard to describe.
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Scott Carle
Sea Puppy
Hull # 27
Wing Keel
Conway, SC
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 7535
Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I see. A complete explanation is located on the Santana site as well. I cant believe that beast relies on that block. Nice to see the pivot pin is in the iron and not the fibreglass but many of the issues remain. Sure pays to replace the cable BEFORE it gets compromised. At any rate, you're done worrying about that headache from now on! heh...

http://www.santanasailboats.com/history/santana21.htm
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
'89 "clear" WK | Hull #327
www.beneteau235.com</font><br><br>
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audeojude
I've lost my Babystay!


Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 2006
Location: Conway, SC

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep .. that block was a bugger.. should have seen the old one.. looked like it exploded from the inside...

the new one has a 2000 lb working strength and 4000 breaking strength...
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Scott Carle
Sea Puppy
Hull # 27
Wing Keel
Conway, SC
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