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f235wanted
Rail Meat


Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 36
Location: New Brunswick Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:56 am    Post subject: Rigging question Reply with quote

Ok I have a rigging question on spinakkers?

If one of these Beneteau's are not currently rigged for a spinikker what is involed to do so, does all the boats from the factory already have the basics for the halyards at the top of the mast are does this need to be reconfigured. where can I find a kit and how much including the pole will this cost me. priced out a sail it was around 845.00. 3 colors
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Jake
Skipper


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 1994
Location: Elkin, NC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if all the 235s came spin ready or not. Pi was equiped when we got her, but we have made many changes since then. Here are the basics:

Spin Pole- For most boats, the spin pole is equal to the "J" measurement of the boat. I believe that to be incorrect for the 235. My spin pole is 9.5' long and I think I remember others saying the same from an earlier thread. There are a variety of pole set ups available, such as rodeo pole or bridle pole in aluminum or carbon fiber. For starters I would recommend finding a J24 pole used on e-bay or some other forum. It measures out about the same.
Mast Ring- This is a small welded ring on the mast where the inside of the spin pole connects. You can go as simple as a ring fitting rivoted to the mast, or as complex as a piece of sail track on the front of the mast that allows you to run the pole at different heights. I strongly recommend this for racing.
Topping Lift- This is a line that runs from just above or just below the baby stay and supports the height of the spin pole.
After Guy- Does just the opposite of the topping lift. It pulls down on the pole. It is not necessary in light air and flat seas, but you will want to have one when it starts bumping and blowing.
Running Rigging- Includes sheets and guys. You can use your sheets as guys instead of having both if you choose to. You will need to install "tweakers" on the port and stbd rails to do this, but it is alot simpler on a small boat than having two lines off each corner of the spinnaker. You will also need two blocks on the rail to lead the sheets thru.
As to cost, you can DIY on the cheap for around $500 bucks if your handy and know what you are doing. You can easily spend $2000 on top end racing hardware and anothe $1000 getting it proffesionally installed also.
If you want the budget alternative, get an asym. Tack it to your anchor roller, add the toe rail blocks and sheets, and your sailing. Just don't try inside gybes that way. It tends to be an embarrassing mess and your kite will get holes in it.
Are you planning on racing this boat, or just going fast and having fun?

edit* Almost forgot one of the most important parts. You've got to have a halyard installed above the forestay, or you will never get that kite off the deck, LOL.

Okay, guys, did I forget anything else... flame away.
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Jake LaRue
former owner and enabler for
s/v Pi, FK, #76

Live Slow, Sail Fast
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alisdairs
1000 posts? Man Overboard!


Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 1251
Location: South River, Chesapeake Bay, MD

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only thing I'd add Jake is that it is much easier if the topping lift and after guy ( and halyard) are all run back to cockpit to allow easy adjustment...also ideally you need the additional winch on the Port cabin top...
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1997 Oceanis 281
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Former owner 'Atlantic Reach'
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f235wanted
Rail Meat


Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 36
Location: New Brunswick Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake wrote:
I don't know if all the 235s came spin ready or not. Pi was equiped when we got her, but we have made many changes since then. Here are the basics:

Spin Pole- For most boats, the spin pole is equal to the "J" measurement of the boat. I believe that to be incorrect for the 235. My spin pole is 9.5' long and I think I remember others saying the same from an earlier thread. There are a variety of pole set ups available, such as rodeo pole or bridle pole in aluminum or carbon fiber. For starters I would recommend finding a J24 pole used on e-bay or some other forum. It measures out about the same.
Mast Ring- This is a small welded ring on the mast where the inside of the spin pole connects. You can go as simple as a ring fitting rivoted to the mast, or as complex as a piece of sail track on the front of the mast that allows you to run the pole at different heights. I strongly recommend this for racing.
Topping Lift- This is a line that runs from just above or just below the baby stay and supports the height of the spin pole.
After Guy- Does just the opposite of the topping lift. It pulls down on the pole. It is not necessary in light air and flat seas, but you will want to have one when it starts bumping and blowing.
Running Rigging- Includes sheets and guys. You can use your sheets as guys instead of having both if you choose to. You will need to install "tweakers" on the port and stbd rails to do this, but it is alot simpler on a small boat than having two lines off each corner of the spinnaker. You will also need two blocks on the rail to lead the sheets thru.
As to cost, you can DIY on the cheap for around $500 bucks if your handy and know what you are doing. You can easily spend $2000 on top end racing hardware and anothe $1000 getting it proffesionally installed also.
If you want the budget alternative, get an asym. Tack it to your anchor roller, add the toe rail blocks and sheets, and your sailing. Just don't try inside gybes that way. It tends to be an embarrassing mess and your kite will get holes in it.
Are you planning on racing this boat, or just going fast and having fun?

edit* Almost forgot one of the most important parts. You've got to have a halyard installed above the forestay, or you will never get that kite off the deck, LOL.

Okay, guys, did I forget anything else... flame away.


Thanks Great to know, I plan on both racing and fun, and good to know on the jybes and the whole embarassment of it all to run it through the anchor locker set up, I'll print this off and report back here On how is made out pricing it all up! So far 849 for spinn 429 for j24 pole ekk gonna need to do the ebay thing cause I'll need a trailor too.....
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Jake
Skipper


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 1994
Location: Elkin, NC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the classifieds on Sailing Anarchy website. Lots of good deals on used equipment there. They just had several J24s blow up in a storm, so the owners may be looking to part out pieces.
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Jake LaRue
former owner and enabler for
s/v Pi, FK, #76

Live Slow, Sail Fast
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f235wanted
Rail Meat


Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 36
Location: New Brunswick Canada

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake wrote:
Check the classifieds on Sailing Anarchy website. Lots of good deals on used equipment there. They just had several J24s blow up in a storm, so the owners may be looking to part out pieces.


Sounds great I'll check it out, Not all that big on the J's, so a few less won't hurt, especially since I couldn't buy one for the Nationals last year in time. I had to settle for chearing squad and drinking crew afloat on the side lines. Just as well, an American won the Canadians hehe.....
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Jake
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Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 1994
Location: Elkin, NC

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had my first race on a J24 last weekend. Loved it. Wouldn't trade the 235 for it though. Those things would scare the piss out of me in moderate seas. I mayy be doing the nationals this year on the J. It looks Like Bry and I are getting drafted for permanent crew for our local OD fleet.
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Jake LaRue
former owner and enabler for
s/v Pi, FK, #76

Live Slow, Sail Fast
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f235wanted
Rail Meat


Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 36
Location: New Brunswick Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake wrote:
I had my first race on a J24 last weekend. Loved it. Wouldn't trade the 235 for it though. Those things would scare the piss out of me in moderate seas. I mayy be doing the nationals this year on the J. It looks Like Bry and I are getting drafted for permanent crew for our local OD fleet.


Been meaning to get back to this now a few times.
The guys in shediac had a blast in the 2007 nationals, a bunch of them went out and bought every J they could get thier hands on, wondering what there doing now as many of them now own 2 boats, now that its over. How well does the f235 actually stack up against them, I know the numbers are close. Winning against a j24 just makes the victory better, as the f235 is the underdog number wise, better looking and more comfy though, making her a much better boat f235 that is.
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audeojude
I've lost my Babystay!


Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 2006
Location: Conway, SC

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The J24's weve seen down here are going to outsail a stock f235.
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Sea Puppy
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abstrait
Site Owner & Administrator


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 7498
Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was able to beat a fully crewed J/24 in our fall/winter series a few years ago (my boat had been drying out for many months with new bottom). On reaches, with good sails, you can stay ahead if you play your cards right. But upwind, a good J/24 with excellent sails and good crew does really well, especially if you're in a wing. It's tough to keep up. I have a wing and it's a hard tow if on the traditional cigar course. But a triangle or distance race with reaches really evens things up. A lot depends on the sailors, calls, and how the boats are tuned etc. Two years ago, the fin First 235 here got a brand new pair of Pentex sails and a newly faired bottom, this after sitting drying out for 6 months. On our distance race, this F235 DESTROYED two J/24 and the whole fleet with loonng reach legs. I beat him in the winter series. He pulled his boat, redid the bottom, got the PenTex duo, and annihilated me that next summer! heh...
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<font face="century gothic" size="1">Kelly Holsten � <i>abstrait</i>
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Jon
First 235 Crazy


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 6813
Location: lake ontario

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J24's prolly have the advantage upwind, but reaching & down wind the 235 has the advantage. I had a J24 owner on Pandora this past summer & he was blown away by how much more responsive the 235 was.
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85' Laser 28 #167*Pandora*
87' F235 WK #69 my ex

Lake Ontario NY
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nquigley
Skipper


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 1844
Location: Concord YC, Knoxville, TN

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon wrote:
J24's prolly have the advantage upwind, but reaching & down wind the 235 has the advantage. I had a J24 owner on Pandora this past summer & he was blown away by how much more responsive the 235 was.

That's a good idea - I should bum a ride on the J24 at our club some race when I don't have crew (using that as my excuse for asking to come along) - then I can try to work out it's weaknesses.

If we sail really well (great start and no stupid tactics or slack boathandling) I can very occasionally beat him on the water in a ~45-minute windward-leward race on flat water. Apart from these situations, whether we win on handicap or if they do is now mainly reflective of tactics and boathandling - like it shoud be.
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Neil Quigley
Ericson 32-2 'Molto Bene'
Knoxville, TN
(ex - F235 #252 'Traveler')
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wgnorth
Tactician


Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 675
Location: Topping, VA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The J24 carries a larger spin and a class legal oversized spin pole. Well prepared and well sailed with good sails, the boats are going to be real competitive against each other.
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Jon
First 235 Crazy


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wgnorth wrote:
The J24 carries a larger spin and a class legal oversized spin pole. Well prepared and well sailed with good sails, the boats are going to be real competitive against each other.


I carry a J24 spin with a minimal hit PHRF-LO & The 235 spin pole is only 6" shorter.
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Jon
85' Laser 28 #167*Pandora*
87' F235 WK #69 my ex

Lake Ontario NY
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nquigley
Skipper


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 1844
Location: Concord YC, Knoxville, TN

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon wrote:
wgnorth wrote:
The J24 carries a larger spin and a class legal oversized spin pole. Well prepared and well sailed with good sails, the boats are going to be real competitive against each other.


I carry a J24 spin with a minimal hit PHRF-LO & The 235 spin pole is only 6" shorter.


Nope - they are not even close ...

J24's J measurement = 9.6 feet (2925 mm)
http://www.skelleysails.com/j-24_page.htm

F235's J measurement = 7.87 feet
http://www.beneteau235.com/specs.htm

I had to cut almost TWO FEET off the J24 pole that came with my boat to make it legal on my F235: I would have taken a 1.5 minute per hour penalty with the longer J24 pole.

If your pole only had to be trimmed by 6 inches, it was not a standard-length J24 pole.
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Neil Quigley
Ericson 32-2 'Molto Bene'
Knoxville, TN
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f235wanted
Rail Meat


Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 36
Location: New Brunswick Canada

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All great reading, So my compitition is set with a fleet of J's in shediac, I would be the underdog but completly do-able to achieve victory, base on good seamanship, My kind of odds, can't wait, oh yahhhhh just that minor little setback, that small minoute technical difficulty...........Of owning a f235..........hehe
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Jon
First 235 Crazy


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 6813
Location: lake ontario

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nquigley wrote:

Nope - they are not even close ...

J24's J measurement = 9.6 feet (2925 mm)
http://www.skelleysails.com/j-24_page.htm

F235's J measurement = 7.87 feet
http://www.beneteau235.com/specs.htm

I had to cut almost TWO FEET off the J24 pole that came with my boat to make it legal on my F235: I would have taken a 1.5 minute per hour penalty with the longer J24 pole.

If your pole only had to be trimmed by 6 inches, it was not a standard-length J24 pole.


I believe they allow a longer than J pole on a J24. I know that PHRF-LO allows 8' (2439mm)for the 235 without a hit.(at least that is what I was told:o))
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Jon
85' Laser 28 #167*Pandora*
87' F235 WK #69 my ex

Lake Ontario NY
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Jake
Skipper


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 1994
Location: Elkin, NC

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon wrote:
nquigley wrote:

Nope - they are not even close ...

J24's J measurement = 9.6 feet (2925 mm)
http://www.skelleysails.com/j-24_page.htm

F235's J measurement = 7.87 feet
http://www.beneteau235.com/specs.htm

I had to cut almost TWO FEET off the J24 pole that came with my boat to make it legal on my F235: I would have taken a 1.5 minute per hour penalty with the longer J24 pole.

If your pole only had to be trimmed by 6 inches, it was not a standard-length J24 pole.


I believe they allow a longer than J pole on a J24. I know that PHRF-LO allows 8' (2439mm)for the 235 without a hit.(at least that is what I was told:o))


Nope, J24 poles have to be j measurement or under. And the kite has a higher hoist and much bigger shoulders than the F235 kite. Their OD rules are brutally strict on measurement. We are campaigning a J24 this year and planning on attending the nationals. The boat ranked out #8 nationally last year. We are even disscussing diets so we come in under max crew weight allowed.
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Jake LaRue
former owner and enabler for
s/v Pi, FK, #76

Live Slow, Sail Fast
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Jon
First 235 Crazy


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 6813
Location: lake ontario

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake wrote:
And the kite has a higher hoist and much bigger shoulders than the F235 kite.


yep, thats why I like em..............that and the minimal hit.
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Jon
85' Laser 28 #167*Pandora*
87' F235 WK #69 my ex

Lake Ontario NY
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f235wanted
Rail Meat


Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 36
Location: New Brunswick Canada

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:41 am    Post subject: LOCCR Reply with quote

LOCCR 2008 Question while I await the right boat to buy.

How many boats are currently committed to the 2008 LOCCR?

I was wondering.....
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Jon
First 235 Crazy


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 6813
Location: lake ontario

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: LOCCR Reply with quote

f235wanted wrote:
LOCCR 2008 Question while I await the right boat to buy.

How many boats are currently committed to the 2008 LOCCR?

I was wondering.....


GREAT QUESTION! I know that Pandora & Practice will be there for sure!

I am about 75% sure it will be held the 1st weekend in Aug.
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Jon
85' Laser 28 #167*Pandora*
87' F235 WK #69 my ex

Lake Ontario NY
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Chris Wild
Navigator


Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 485
Location: Cathedral Bluffs Yacht Club, Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wild Thing plans on being there!

Chris
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Jon
First 235 Crazy


Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 6813
Location: lake ontario

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris Wild wrote:
Wild Thing plans on being there!

Chris



Great news, otta get Dave over here too! comon' truehand!
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Jon
85' Laser 28 #167*Pandora*
87' F235 WK #69 my ex

Lake Ontario NY
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f235wanted
Rail Meat


Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 36
Location: New Brunswick Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so 4 so far,

If the number reaches 8, and I have a boat in time, and if it is not at the same week as the chester race week in Halifax (actually Chester) I'd Trailor up.... But there would have to be a trophy for 1st place two drool over, oh and lots of dark rum on hand hehe arrgh.
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david
Tactician


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 607

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

got my new cradleride trailer on wednesday.. looks like the LOCCR is in my sights!
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